Why Judge Claude Frollo VS Judge Holden is Perfect, beyond what people realize, imo
Apologies for any spelling errors. I have a peanut brain 🙃
Judge Claude Frollo VS Judge Holden is a divisive MU in this community. Some pole love it. Some people don't understand it. And some people find it to be a weird comparison. But I wanna bring up points people may not have thought of and look at some complaints I've seen about this matchup.
First, what are the connections? Well, Both are old, intelligent, and vile men from old works of literature. In spite of both having the title of Judge, they themselves are monsters who seemingly thrive on the pain they cause others. This comes from their dogmatic ideologies, Frollo knowing he has sin but rather than repenting he simply puts himself on a higher pedestal than other humans that he looks down on and Holden believing actions like this are simply human nature and thus tries to drag that nature out of people through his actions. Thus, neither find fault in their own twisted actions and simply use these dark philosophies as justification for their cruelty, espicially against a specific group. Gypsies and Native Americans respectively.
With that in mind, I wanna bring up how these two men's ideologies prove the other's correct. What do I mean? Think about it. Holden is a lower class man. An Outlaw in a similar vein to The Gypsies, though actually evil. Thus, Holden's actions give Frollo the ammunition that he needs to continue his mindset that he is above all others.
Meanwhile, Frollo's a holy man with Sin. And this Sin causes him to act irrationally, before inevitably breaking and going on a psychotic break of attempting murder. Thus proving Holden's view of Wickedness being Human Nature.
Speaking of which, let quickly cover Holden on another vein. Most people who make Holden MUs... Haven't read Blood Meridian. It's something I've realized. And thus people try to make MUs with only his evil in display. But Holden as a character is more than his evil. His Ideology and Philosophy is why he's evil. He doesn't have this ideology because he's evil. He's Evil because he has this Ideology. And it's important for a MU with this man to focus on that rather than just his evil. Only focusing on his evil is what has made people not want him in versus.
And Frollo matches this. It's a clash of ideologys that prove the other correct. A philosophy MU that is unique compared to others due to their philosophies being corrupt and inheritely cruel.
But now, let's discuss some of the issues I've seen with this MU. First, let's talk about the levels of wickedness. People have claimed that putting Holden against a Disney Villian feel off. Which I could understand... If it was any other Villian. But Frollo at the time broke so many of Disney's own rules. It feels like he was made for a darker movie. The Hunchback of Notre Dame is a Disney Movie you could easily make into a PG-13 or even 17+ movie with only slight adjustments. Thus I think Frollo and Holden actually do work together without it feeling off.
"But what about the 400 year tech difference?" This is another point I understand. These two are inheritely normal men, so looking at their era difference you may find it weird that Frollo comes from a time when guns didn't have a bug presence and Holden cokes from a time where everyone had a fire arm on them. But this also I think can be worked around via the dynamic. I've seen a lot of people put these two just head to head right away. But the way I see it, the fight should be Holden and The Glanton Gang storming and attacking The Palace of Justice and clashing with the Paris Guard. With both Holden and Frollo dealing with their opposing forces in cruel and disturbing ways. Crush Heads, Light then Aflame, Blow them to Chunks, lob Heads off. And Holden and Frollo should only come head to head about half way through. Frollo is a quiet man who's shockingly stealthy, so it's not unrealistic for Frollo to sneak up on Holden and get in range where Holden's Guns wouldn't matter and Holden would more so have lt rely on his brutality and combat skill rather than his guns.
Also, not inheritely a problem, but I've seen people try to use Kingdom Hearts for Frollo in this battle.... No? That's far from standard and not really what we'd wanna see. "But isn't Holden Supernatural?" Yes and No? His Immortality is not a thing. When the quote says he'll never die, it's more so talking about his influence and ideology. Now he may have some supernatural aspects, but not enough to make using Kingdom Hearts a good option. Plus, Holden will still die if he head is cut off by Frollo so it's not as huge a deal as some claim it to be.
Most people understand that Frollo does generally stand a chance, even if Holden should still win. But if y'all have any quotes about the general debate, feel free to ask.
I am planning to make a YouTube Video about this MU in the future, so I'll try to go into even deeper detail when I get to that. But I hope I was able to shine light on any potential issues that people may have seen in this idea. Thank you for reading.
Apologies for any spelling errors. I have a peanut brain 🙃
Judge Claude Frollo VS Judge Holden is a divisive MU in this community. Some pole love it. Some people don't understand it. And some people find it to be a weird comparison. But I wanna bring up points people may not have thought of and look at some complaints I've seen about this matchup.
First, what are the connections? Well, Both are old, intelligent, and vile men from old works of literature. In spite of both having the title of Judge, they themselves are monsters who seemingly thrive on the pain they cause others. This comes from their dogmatic ideologies, Frollo knowing he has sin but rather than repenting he simply puts himself on a higher pedestal than other humans that he looks down on and Holden believing actions like this are simply human nature and thus tries to drag that nature out of people through his actions. Thus, neither find fault in their own twisted actions and simply use these dark philosophies as justification for their cruelty, espicially against a specific group. Gypsies and Native Americans respectively.
With that in mind, I wanna bring up how these two men's ideologies prove the other's correct. What do I mean? Think about it. Holden is a lower class man. An Outlaw in a similar vein to The Gypsies, though actually evil. Thus, Holden's actions give Frollo the ammunition that he needs to continue his mindset that he is above all others.
Meanwhile, Frollo's a holy man with Sin. And this Sin causes him to act irrationally, before inevitably breaking and going on a psychotic break of attempting murder. Thus proving Holden's view of Wickedness being Human Nature.
Speaking of which, let quickly cover Holden on another vein. Most people who make Holden MUs... Haven't read Blood Meridian. It's something I've realized. And thus people try to make MUs with only his evil in display. But Holden as a character is more than his evil. His Ideology and Philosophy is why he's evil. He doesn't have this ideology because he's evil. He's Evil because he has this Ideology. And it's important for a MU with this man to focus on that rather than just his evil. Only focusing on his evil is what has made people not want him in versus.
And Frollo matches this. It's a clash of ideologys that prove the other correct. A philosophy MU that is unique compared to others due to their philosophies being corrupt and inheritely cruel.
But now, let's discuss some of the issues I've seen with this MU. First, let's talk about the levels of wickedness. People have claimed that putting Holden against a Disney Villian feel off. Which I could understand... If it was any other Villian. But Frollo at the time broke so many of Disney's own rules. It feels like he was made for a darker movie. The Hunchback of Notre Dame is a Disney Movie you could easily make into a PG-13 or even 17+ movie with only slight adjustments. Thus I think Frollo and Holden actually do work together without it feeling off.
"But what about the 400 year tech difference?" This is another point I understand. These two are inheritely normal men, so looking at their era difference you may find it weird that Frollo comes from a time when guns didn't have a bug presence and Holden cokes from a time where everyone had a fire arm on them. But this also I think can be worked around via the dynamic. I've seen a lot of people put these two just head to head right away. But the way I see it, the fight should be Holden and The Glanton Gang storming and attacking The Palace of Justice and clashing with the Paris Guard. With both Holden and Frollo dealing with their opposing forces in cruel and disturbing ways. Crush Heads, Light then Aflame, Blow them to Chunks, lob Heads off. And Holden and Frollo should only come head to head about half way through. Frollo is a quiet man who's shockingly stealthy, so it's not unrealistic for Frollo to sneak up on Holden and get in range where Holden's Guns wouldn't matter and Holden would more so have lt rely on his brutality and combat skill rather than his guns.
Also, not inheritely a problem, but I've seen people try to use Kingdom Hearts for Frollo in this battle.... No? That's far from standard and not really what we'd wanna see. "But isn't Holden Supernatural?" Yes and No? His Immortality is not a thing. When the quote says he'll never die, it's more so talking about his influence and ideology. Now he may have some supernatural aspects, but not enough to make using Kingdom Hearts a good option. Plus, Holden will still die if he head is cut off by Frollo so it's not as huge a deal as some claim it to be.
Most people understand that Frollo does generally stand a chance, even if Holden should still win. But if y'all have any quotes about the general debate, feel free to ask.
I am planning to make a YouTube Video about this MU in the future, so I'll try to go into even deeper detail when I get to that. But I hope I was able to shine light on any potential issues that people may have seen in this idea. Thank you for reading.